Talk:Kara Zor-L (Earth-Two)
Park City my friend gave me this really intresting story and i thought i would put his story up here, basically its three characters from dc not really established then he revamped all of the old ones, its the huntress, power girl and the pink lantern (the daughter of the green lantern the corporation as made 7 protectors of peace for each planet recently) basically his spin is they all have drama add in some powers and retell the origins of alot of favorite characters since dc has alot of earth two and alternate stuff i thought it would be cool anyways you can email me at wildcardof08@gmail.com if you like the idea or w/e Questionable edits Can anyone confirm some of the more recent edits on this page? I recently purchased PG's most recent appearances. I haven't read them yet, but unless those books reveal some MAJOR alterations of her known history, then I'm afraid I'll have to consider the latest Power Girl edits as "fan fiction" and revert them. I'll check back tonight after I've researched a little further. Until then, I'm protecting this page from future edits. --Brian 14:43, 7 July 2006 (Eastern Daylight Time) Major Edits With apologies to Mjackson, SuperStang68, and Nerdface, I was forced to make some major edits to this page. The most recent editing done on the Power Girl page cannot be confirmed by any canonical sources, and so it must be considered fan-ficiton. The purpose of this site is to act as a reference guide, providing material as it relates to events that take place within the continuity of the actual comic books. For future reference, please only submit information that has been revealed in the published source material and/or similar reference resources. Thanks. --Brian 10:11, 10 July 2006 (Eastern Daylight Time) Major Edits per JSA Vol 3 #9 Sorry guys the preliminary stuff has been changed yet again by Geoff as she was NOW raised by the CURRENT mainstream Superman despite showing in 52 issue 36 that is was Kal-L that found her!! And it was the CURRENT Superman who inspired her to join the JSA! Though her power levels seem NOW to be dropped down to Kal-L's power levels as she was burned quite easily from Goth's attack which more than likely would NOT have been so intense if she was still at the current Superman levels. And from what I see in this book Johns has changed the entry of Superman (Earth-22) to NOW entering the DC Primary Universe through the black hole that Starman created rather than punching into it a la Kal-L from the Paradise Dimension. (Guess that makes Starman at Superman levels as Superman in the current universe is not at controlling black holes -- well not yet anyway) I am going to wait until the FINAL version of JSA #10 comes out before updating the Earth-22 Supermen entry but it seems that a LOT has been redone-changed edited since the initial publications. --Kal_l_fan 10:17, 24 July 2006 Power and their Levels I appreciate all the effort and time that is being put into this page in order to develop it and keep it up to date by people and do NOT take changing their edits lightly. However, I believe that the edits should reflect the written stories that are used as CONSISTENT basis for the character, not one time presentation and not elements that are not natural for the character (such as external augmentations that are used on a very infrequent basis or one-time only). Perhaps such augmentations hould be included under notes as "it has been observed in at least one instance (as shown in book blah blah) this character was able to do blah-blah beyond their established parameters." That way, the note clearly refers to their charged up accomplishment in a legitimate way but also notes that it is not what most writers who use the character as that character's norm elimianting most of the surrounding cunfusion regarding such. Major Edits There was a lot here that was just plain wrong, outdated, reflected misunderstandings, or reflected incomplete information. In changing this article, I tried to reflect only things that have been shown over time, confirmed by the writers themselves, or seem to confirm multiple other stories. I have tried to eliminate as much pure speculation as possible. For example, Power Girl was NOT hurt by the Kryptonite weapons along with Superman and Supergirl. Kurt Busiek himself confirmed this on several forums. She was hurt by the red sun weapons. Also, the instances in Brave and The Bold do NOT appear to reflect ANY enhancement of her ordinary powers by Dr. Alchemy or the Philosopher's Stone. She ONLY appears to gain the ability to USE the Philosopher's Stone. Her vision and hearing, and indeed her strength and speed appear to be unaffected. This is clear because Alchemy is astonished by the extent of these powers, and by the fact that quite simply they are shown to exist AFTER Alchemy is out of the picture. She has also been shown to fly into space and back under her own power on many occasions, and indeed across the galaxy on at least one occasion. As for her appearance in the "Candor" story arc, PG does indeed have her powers inside Kandor. They are merely reduced by the environment. PG's injuries at fires of Goth do NOT appear to reflect any reduced invulnerability; but rather they appear to reflect the effect of Goth's magic. Magic does appear to hurt or at least affect her, though the specifics have not yet been given. Also, no specific ranges for how long, how much, or any such thing have ever been given. It seems to me that such specifics were cited from game stats or the like, in which case they should be given citations, or at least identified as such, rather than official DC cannon. These references I removed. I also added some trivia. There were also a lot of paragraphs and headings that simply duplicated earlier parts of the article, and made it more cumbersome and less informative. I removed these as well. More than one section on the effects of Kryptonite on various versions of Kryptonians seems excessive to me. The subject of Power Girl being somehow not a "true" Earth-2 Kryptonian is complete fan speculation, and speculation that does not appear to be supported by any facts presented as of yet. She, like Kal-L, appears instead simply to have been retconned as of Infinite Crisis to function very much like the current Earth Kryptonians. Why DC may have done so is anyone's guess, but mine would be that they just wished to simplify their line of Kryptonians. In Infinite Crisis, both Kal-L and PG were very strongly implied to be using the sun as a power source. In summary, I corrected a lot in this article, but please READ it first before simply reverting wholesale to an earlier draft. Much that is in that draft is simply incorrect, contradicted by the writers themselves, by the stories, and by subsequent events. :I have reread your changes and note you keep changing the powers ONLY of the character with some very superficial other notes. And your changes, I find then to be inaccurate as they are not based on the current books of the character, other than the one Brave & Bold #7 which again was NOT shown to be natural to the character. :>In Infinite Crisis, both Kal-L and PG were very strongly implied to be using the sun as a power source. ::Conjecture and not proven in any way as that would fundamentally chagne the character. Please quote book where this was STATED AS A FACT and not as you say "strong implied" :>The subject of Power Girl being somehow not a "true" Earth-2 Kryptonian is complete fan speculation, and speculation that does not appear to be supported by any facts presented as of yet. ::Kal-L was CLEARLY shown in Infinite Crisis NOT to be effected by Kryptonite of DC Primary Earth reality. Kara-L has be shown REPEATEDLY to be effected by the same Krptonite of DC Earth. If she is a true Earth-Two Kryptonian, she is to be immune to Kryptonite of this reality as every other extra-dimensional Kryptonian. She is not. :::I have locked the page until we can reach an amicable agreement... :::--Jamie 04:40, 29 November 2007 (UTC) Rewrite this page. This page should be rewritten by a third party, and carefully vetted for unattributed claims or statements. As it is, most of the current draft is flat wrong, contradictory, and repetitive, with many claims that are simply not true, and many that are pure fan speculation. Ironically, the main Wikipedia article on Power Girl is far more accurate. I'm not sure if some of the more specific claims for this character are based on Marvel character limits, or on game specs, or on pure speculation, but be advised that the character has never had any specific limits placed on her. For example, her strength is unknown, and mentioning that it is at least 100 tons of lifting ability, when this is speculative and not very useful in any event. Or mentioning how long it takes her to recharge---when such is not known. But in main, it needs to be completely revised, and the fan claims need to be kept out. Sigh The article as it stands is not speculative. Though if you wish to revise it with published material that can be directly supportive to the character as the character is used by all means change it BUT BASE YOUR MATERIAL ON CURRENT PUBLISHED MATERIAL quoting books that were written in 2004 and clearly contradictory to the CURRENT plotlines does not help the entry. loudly Which book did I quote that was written in 2004? I mentioned only two books, BOTH written THIS year, The Brave and the Bold, and Superman, (The Third Kryptonian arc, which you use incorrectly according to the writer of the piece). Both these books are published, neither contradicts any current plotline. Relying on what a writer TELLS you he meant to convey in a current piece is perfectly reasonable, I think, since he meant to clear up a point that confused some fans. :>For example, her strength is unknown, and mentioning that it is at least 100 tons of lifting ability, when this is speculative and not very useful in any event. Sigh This statement is EXACTLY what I am talking about statements READS "It is UNKNOWN what her TOP LIMIT is but it is SUGGESTED to at least be around the 100 ton level WHILE CHARGED." That claearly states a LOT of conditions and has been observed by the characer in both her pre-Crisis situation which you seem fixated on and her current plotline after Infintie Crisis. another sigh I don't know where you get the idea that I'm fixated on anything pre-Crisis, (and here I'll take this to mean COIE rather than IC), since I mention nothing at all about anything occurring before COIE. In fact, as I've said, everything I mentioned in the article edit happened after IC, this year in fact, save for the events that happen IN IC. Further, your conditions are somewhat puzzling, since apart from yourself, NO ONE "suggested" that her strength is at least the 100 ton level while charged. Show me where, in any issue of anything DC has published, that this is the case. You can't, can you? For good reason. DC does not publish material like this, preferring to keep these details murky at best, which is a good reason not to suggest that they exist, since they will almost certainly be contradicted in print any time you claim them. /Sigh Unless you want the entry to say something completely germaine as "Kara-L is superhumanly strong as evident by her being shown on repeated events lifting trucks over her head barehanded and without any additional supports observed." Response Say rather that "Power Girl is one of the strongest beings in the DCU", and you'll have nailed it. That she is has been shown many times, and it is as vague as the character's ultimate strength---therefore it does not imply anything that is not true. /Response If that is what you are suggesting, I can agree to those statements as they are completely true to the character AS THE CHARACTER IS NOW. :But in main, it needs to be completely revised, and the fan claims need to be kept out. :Agreed. I would suggest simply knocking it down to the history section, and a few basic, verifiable and vague mentions about her powers and weaknesses. -Kal_l_fan 00:49 29 Nov 2007 Re: rewrite this page. My point is that this article is rife with errors. Even Power Girl's height and weight are wrong, according to the DC Comics encyclopedia. Mentioning an arbitrary maximum weight that she can lift when it would be better simply to say that the upper limits of her strength are not known, and that she appears to be roughly comparable to Supergirl---just doesn't help, and gives the wrong impression. Further, errors such as claiming that she can not leave or enter the atmosphere when she has clearly done so on multiple occasions, even before her recent retcon back to being Kryptonian, (issues of JLA, GL, JLA/Titans, and IC show this), or errors such as claiming she was hurt by Kryptonite in the "Third Kryptonian" arc of Superman, (as I explained, the writer of this story, Kurt Busiek was specifically asked this question, and responded that she was NOT hurt by the Kryptonite, but rather by the other weapons used), calls into question the accuracy of other statements and claims made. For example this was used as support for the speculative claim that she is somehow not a proper Earth-2 Kryptonian since she is vulnerable to the current Earth's Kryptonite when history shows otherwise. Yet with this claim suggested by the only two post IC appearances where she has been confronted by Kryptonite to be false----this speculation, which has not in any event ever been shown or suggested to be the case in anything published by DC Comics----falls apart. Why you apparently choose not to believe the writer of an arc, and what exactly you refer with reference to stories in 2004, I can't say. However little of the article after the history part is supported by anything written since 2004 in any case, or in fact by anything written since COIE in 1986. The details of her eyesight and hearing in The Brave and the Bold are just that, details, there to illustrate the extent of those powers, as evidenced in other issues, such as the afore mentioned arc of Superman, in which she helps Supergirl track a sound across the US. They are rather vague, and do not serve either to give limits to these powers, or to suggest minimums. Yet you seem to have a problem with these statements, while you curiously also mentioning PRECISE limits NEVER shown or discussed in any publication by DC. Giving times she needs to recover from maximum exertion for example. Such would be appropriate if this were an attempt to create a role playing game, and you were actually working for DC to provide a product, rather than simply editing an article that purports to give information on the character as published. Bottom line is after two attempts to remove some of the inaccuracies in the article, and to update it, I will not try a third time, but I would suggest that someone redo it. It would be nice if SOMEONE would rewrite this almost completely useless article! Virtually everything in it that does not pertain to particular storylines is wrong, even basic data such as height and weight, her aliases, and her powers. It is fan fiction posing as a legit entry on the character. Someone from the site itself needs to edit this, and then lock it down so whoever keeps writing their own fan fiction here doesn't change it back. Ironically, the main Wikipedia site has a much more accurate entry on this character, and Supergirl as well. The last editor doesn't even understand WHY Goth hurt Power Girl, (his fire is magic, and even effected Alan Scott---it would have hurt ANY Kryptonian save perhaps Prime since they are vulnerable to magic), and mistakenly but VERY stubbornly attributes this to her having a lower level of vulnerability. This person fundamentally does not understand either Power Girl or Supergirl, yet keeps changing edits back to his or her incorrect version. I for example would take the word of the WRITER of a piece referenced as to what was meant---but again, this person does not, preferring to make up their own fan fiction and present it as fact. ::I'll try to help out any way I can here. I've never been happy with the way this page looked anyway. For starters, I'm going to move this page, and the corresponding appearances, gallery, fan art and quotes pages to reflect the new naming convention; in this case, Kara Zor-L (Earth-Two). Afterwards, I'm going to move the origin section to the history section because its simply too long to be squeezed into the info-box (that will have to be re-worked a bit as well). After that, I'm going to tweak the various history sections and fix the contradicting tenses. As the term implies, History should be written in the past-tense, not present-tense. As to powers... ugh. I'll get to that later. ::Oh, and guys... please make sure you sign you comments on this talk page. You can do this by either using the signature key (above), or by adding four tildes ~~~~ after your comment. As this talk page grows, its becoming more and more difficult to determine who is saying what. --Brian Kurtz 13:58, 22 December 2007 (UTC) :I simply haven't had the energy to read through the article itself or this talk page...though I may suggest that every statement made about her powers must be sourced with the actual issue (and/or possibly a comment from the writer). Also, only write things that can be sourced from an issue during or after the Infinite Crisis. Though another person may already have suggested this, as I, (as I said earlier) didn't read this talk page. The Clever Guy (Talk • • ) 20:57, 22 December 2007 (UTC) Really, a very simple page. Apart from the history section that is. I completely agree that powers should be sourced, and since there is very little specific in any books so far about her powers, this section shouldn't run to more than a couple of paragraphs. Most of the powers currently claimed for her in the article for example have never been written about by DC, (the same for the Supergirl article). There are currently no limits mentioned on either Kara-L's powers, or Kara-El's powers, nor are there any detailed explanations for them, other then the rather generic "powered by the sun". In general, all these articles should follow this convention, (I would put creator comments or DCU Secret Files type write-ups done by DC as other reliable sources). Fan speculation should also be kept out. I would say however, that given the dearth of information about post-IC Kryptonian Kara Zor-L, vague and general statements made in one comic, that are backed up in a general fashion in another, might be included so long as the comments are noted to have come from specific comics. An illustration might be the comments cited above in The Brave and the Bold, which were backed up in a general fashion by events in Superman, (the Third Kryptonian arc---which also served to back up the idea that Kara-L is not currently effected by Kryptonite, according to Kurt Busiek's commentary on the subject). The later subject should be broached with an acknowledgment that the picture is somewhat muddy, as in all comics from IC onward that have presented the character with Kryptonite, she has been un-effected, while the DC website write-up on Kara-L, done during the 52 storyline by Mark Waid, who is not the character's regular writer, has her as being vulnerable to Kryptonite. Such contradictions seem to be inherent in some characters, and should be mentioned to let the reader decide which is correct. Also, writers should be careful to get their fact correct regarding what material there is that is published. For example, Kara-L's height and weight are not consistent with what DC publishes. Nor was the character a member of the Sovereign Seven, for the simple reason that the team never existed, (having been revealed to have been simply a children's bed-time story in the final issue, as Chris Claremont took his creation into limbo as he left for Marvel---though this DID cause some continuity issues for Power Girl, since she mentions her time with this team in an issue of PAD's Supergirl, and possibly other comics). Also, the comments on Kara-L's recent burning by the character Goth suggesting reduced invulnerability are not correct, as Goth's powers are rooted in magic, which hurts ALL Kryptonians, with the possible exception of Superman Prime. Certainly her continued close quarters fights with Prime, a character who kills scores of Green Lanterns with ease, suggests otherwise.--Achilles140 00:50, 25 December 2007 (UTC) ::All very good points. Lots to consider. I didn't know that Sovereign Seven was a dream. Very interesting. The magic thing is always going to be tricky, especially in this new age where "the laws of magic have changed". The most difficult part in correctly analzying a character's abilties, is that writers, being at the very least quasi-human, are subject to error, and are not always consistent with how they present characters to the readers. The way magic affects a Kryptonian has never been handled consistently, and seems to change daily at the whim of the writer du jour. having flashbacks of Superman fighting demons in Hell during Day of Judgment. Shudder --Brian Kurtz 14:22, 19 February 2008 (UTC) It is time to consider completely rewriting this page to knock out the in light of Power Girl's upcoming series, with an eye to knocking out all the information that is either outright false, or fan speculation, (apparently the result of one fan's views on the character, which have been and continue to be contradicted in DC comics and by interviews given by the talent involved. Once this is accomplished, I would suggest that the article be periodically reviewed to see that those changes are not reverted, which this particular fan seem to like doing. Now we will have a monthly title for the character upon which to base some more facts for the article, (and I will point out to the fan in question that Justin Gray, the cowriter of the new Power Girl series, mentions in the Newarama interview that Power Girl is "on a level with Superman" in terms of power). All the rewrites in the world however will not change the false information given by this article unless this fan is prevented from reverting it back to his fan fiction. Perhaps it should be considered that someone who is only following what is actually IN the comic books should edit this page. The bit about the JSA Annual engages in fan fiction type speculation, ignoring what the characters, (in this case Power Girl version 2), say, (which is that Power Girl is as fast as Power Girl 2, and "almost as strong"---to take the blows that Power Girl 2 was giving her). Power Girl 2 has not been demonstrated to be "far more powerful" than Power Girl. Quite the contrary. And the vast number of old errors that were in the article are still there. I might point out that the bits in The Brave and the Bold are in fact part of general continuity, as the series later linked to Final Crisis, (in yet another issue with Power Girl), which was in fact a continuation of the overall arc in question. So the bits about Power Girl's vision and hearing are cannon, as is the part that is shown where she is positively NOT affected in any way by Kryptonite, something another writer who used her earlier confirmed about the same story whoever wrote this article used to claim that she WAS. Ignoring what DC says on the subject doesn't serve any purpose in an article on the character they control after all. And if THIS article is that bad, it raises questions about all the other articles here.Achilles140 20:09, 31 August 2008 (UTC) Main Image I believe this is a better main image for Power Girl. --Johnnybravo44 (talk) 02:54, September 4, 2010 (UTC) eyes up here line Does anyone know where this pic is taken from (title/volume/issue nr, please)? --06:37, January 31, 2011 (UTC) :I don't know precisely (early Vol 2), but early Vol 2 is full of this stuff. -- [[User:Tupka217|Tupka]][[User talk:Tupka217|''217]] 07:23, January 31, 2011 (UTC) ::OK, but do you know, which Issue exactly? Thx in advance for teh info :) --Boris Baran 07:26, January 31, 2011 (UTC) :Actually, its JSA Classified Vol 1 1 and its on page 13. Kyletheobald 07:36, January 31, 2011 (UTC) ::Thx, Kyletheobald, you made my day. I'll upload the photo of our busty heroine right away.--Boris Baran :::No thank you, we've got enough boob jokes. -- '[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[User talk:Tupka217|217]] 07:51, January 31, 2011 (UTC) ::::No, that was not supposed to be a boob joke, but a serious upload of a notable panel from Power Girl... 'Till I've seen, that there is already an uploaded version of this panels. Dou you know how to ask an admin to delete the older or the newer file with the same panels? Thx in advance :) --Boris Baran 08:06, January 31, 2011 (UTC) :::::I deleted it, because just checking PeeGee's gallery shows we already have it. -- '[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[User talk:Tupka217|217]] 08:22, January 31, 2011 (UTC) ::::::Thx, Tupka217. Why did you decide to take the nick tupka217? --Boris Baran 08:28, January 31, 2011 (UTC) :::::::Long story, best not to pollute a mainspace talk page for chatter like that. -- '[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[User talk:Tupka217|217]] 08:42, January 31, 2011 (UTC) ::::::::Why fon't you use my talk page?--Boris Baran 08:44, January 31, 2011 (UTC) Her Personality. Due to the fact that she is indeed Kara, but a different version would lead me to believe that she acts almost exactly the same. When I looked at the personality for Kara Zor'El, it mentioned that she was kind, caring, selfless, intelligent, sense of justice, honor and good morals. She can be short-tempered and lets her emotions get the best of her at times. With what was said above, I should apply that with the difference between those two, is that Powergirl aka Kara Zor'L, behaves as an older, more mature, and more level-headed Kara. So, what was said above would apply but in a more mature and calm sense. So she would be kind, caring, selfless, intelligent, sense of justice, level headed, honor, good morals, mature sense and can control her temper. I do hope that you put this information to good use and put it on the Wiki page. It would certainly help others better understand her character. After all, personality is key. Injustice games Power Girl is a Premier Skin for Supergirl in the Injustice games. From what I heard, the characters' conversations change when Supergirl wears her PG skin. A skin counts as a different version of the character? MektonZ (talk) 17:36, May 12, 2017 (UTC) :Nope. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|''217]] 17:37, May 12, 2017 (UTC)